17 comments on “PIPES, CEREMONIAL AND OTHERWISE

    • Thanks shard – tradition and culture are what have
      defined us, without them we can never be who we are
      and have been.
      I would encourage you as I do others to remain true
      to these things, and if they are to be lost then go
      down swinging.

  1. Harvey Arden trying to make a turkey fly like an Eagle…
    Posted on December 27, 2015 by Looking Back Woman-Suzanne Dupree

    HEY, HARVEY….still sticking to AIM’s lies & propaganda, supporting frauds, rapists, pedofiles, murderers..and profiting off evil & darkness done to 1st Nations people in Indian Country by AIM/Abourezk/US Govt? What a waste of journalistic talent. And, how did your cancer (Creator’s justice) work out of your enablement/support of frauds Arvol Looking Horse, Peltier, & the American Indian Movement/Abourezk/Obama/Code Pinkos, eh? Not so good! The True Steward

    No matter how you slice this this is sick, twisted and ultimately psychotic. When I first started attending ceremony, I heard Wallace Black Elk say something like,” Never send a bad thought towards someone when you are holding a Chaunupa. It might happen that way but it will come back on you twice as bad.” So only think good thoughts when you are holding Chanupa and pray for health and help.”
    Not only is the ” Steward,” off on her facts here( Harvey does not have Cancer) but her tone is twisted and mean spirited.

    “I also have something of an issue with a title or position being bestowed upon an individual in what is an hereditary passage as I do not believe any are qualified based on heritage alone – it is more about character and what some might refer to as a calling.” Rezinate
    My guess is that if Fools Crow were still with us that he would take that back from her. A Chanupa in her hands is a danger to herself and others, the same way our country would be in danger if Trump was elected, ” the Steward,”

    • As I’ve said, I believe there is a difference between a person who
      carries a pipe and one who is a pipe carrier – my opinion based
      on that is my opinion resulting from what I have been taught, observed,
      and experienced, and I am not the final arbiter.
      I agree a person needs to be mindful of not only what they say
      but how they conduct themselves when holding a pipe, also
      in the presence of one.
      This “code” applies equally to AIM, Peltier, and the theatrics
      they’ve engaged in when showcasing one in a legal procedure, as
      a prop for taking an “oath”, or for presenting themselves in a
      light other that who’ve they’ve shown themselves to be.
      We’ll never know what Fool’s Crow would or wouldn’t do, but I
      suspect if he were still alive more than one dispute would either
      be settled or ramped up – I suspect as well he’d still be tapping
      AIM with the stick.
      I’ve never seconded any opinion related to the death of any
      AIMsters that it was Creator inspired or allowed and can’t
      foresee a time when I would.
      I think it a process of wishful thinking and perhaps even
      gloating based on a perception of justice having been previously
      denied – but then as I’ve also said I can’t speak for Creator and
      could be wrong.
      Do I believe LBW has the original calf pipe? No.
      Do I believe she has a ceremonial copy gifted by Fools Crow? Yes.
      And that makes her a carrier of a ceremonial pipe along with a
      responsibility to observe all customs and traditions associated with
      that position.
      Failing that and the equation changes for anyone from being a “pipe
      carrier” to carrying a pipe in my opinion while the nature of the pipe
      remains what it is.
      Since you’ve quoted my words about hereditary passage do you
      agree it is about more than bloodlines?

  2. “Some will say all pipes are sacred, maybe they are, but I say it is the intent of the one who creates it, their character, and the purpose for which it is employed that either adds or subtracts from the overall value. ”

    • Personally I’m not sure if the original pipe even exists,
      if it does a part of the responsibility is to on ocassion
      display it – as in physically to a gathering of the people.
      You or I could claim we have the original, and yet if unwilling
      to physically present it during certain ceremonies for viewing
      any claim you or I would make is meaningless.
      If you set personal bias aside LBW presents a strong case
      for holding a ceremonial copy, and I have no doubt that she
      does – a pipe in the condition of the one she holds would be
      a near impossibility to be the original one.
      As a ceremonial pipe it is worthy of respect by not only those
      who view but the one who carries.
      Grandfather has a very well tended pipe that is in excess of a
      hundred and fifty years old, the age is obvious in appearance
      alone, when his grandchildren reach his age the age of this
      pipe will be even more obvious, that’s just the way of things.
      I’ve made a couple of pipes as gifts meant to be personal individual
      pipes – when I have I’ve followed a protocal of sweating and smudging
      first and then completing them in one sitting – as much as thirty six
      hours with no distractions.
      That’s my personal approach and I don’t say it should be universal.
      You quoted someone in a blog comment a while back who said all pipes
      are sacred – if you believe that do you believe the one lbw holds is
      sacred?

  3. I believe that the Chanupa itself is Sacred but that does not in turn make LBW a ” Holy Woman,” or someone of any importance just because she inherited it, or even by your standards, ” a pipe carrier.” . If it was indeed gifted to her family by Fools Crow I believe that it was Created with good intentions for health, help and healing. I don’t believe that LBW is carrying it with good intentions based on some of her comments and actions. Another statement that I’ve heard is, ” Sacred instruments ultimately take care of themselves.” I generally agree with this: Trimbach proclaiming her, ” The True Steward,” in that video is misguided.

    • I believe a lot of the confusion and debate has resulted
      from Trimbach’s words whatever his motivation may have
      been.
      I also believe the traditional approach when an issue
      such as this has arisen is to place it before traditional
      elders and the people – if not they begin to fester and
      take on the characteristics of personal feuds that in
      the end serve no one.
      There is no doubt in my mind LBW holds a ceremonial
      pipe – the value of that pipe is not contingent on
      what others may perceive as her worthiness or lack of
      it.
      That quality or lack of it will and should only reflect
      upon her.
      Nobody lives forever and the question becomes what happens
      to this pipe in her passing? The importance of that question
      cannot be dismissed and should lead to a reconciliation effort.
      In the end it belongs to the lakota and it must remain with
      them, no one person owns such a pipe, only the responsibility
      to care for and protect it.
      Protect is a key word – who protected and what has happened
      to the artifacts and sacred objects looted from Reigert’s
      museum?
      I don’t ascribe to the theory that sacred objects take care
      of themselves – too much has been lost and destroyed for that
      to be the way of it, a reality taking place daily on a global
      level.
      What we have as nations is elemental, constructed of materials
      indigenous to this planet, and as such subject to the same
      process of aging, decay, and even theft.
      That is the reason for “custodians” and “stewards”.

  4. And to add to what I said,”Carrying a Chunupa,” does not make anyone a perfect human being. We all are imperfect human beings capable of making mistakes. Therefore there is always room for learning and forgiveness. So one of the great things that comes with the Chanupa is compassion.

    • Compassion among other things – one being to stand for what is right,
      to seek justice where there is none, to live humbly with a spirit
      of humility, to be a voice in word and deed for those whose voice
      is ignored or silenced – and as christians would say ” to avoid the
      appearance of evil”.
      As I’ve said on more than occasion in the blog, forgiveness comes
      with the sincere seeking of it predicated on admission of a wrong(s)
      and an attempt to make amends – in other words accepting responsibility.
      People can be fooled but I don’t believe anyone can pull the wool over
      Creators eyes – something to be considered.

  5. And now the inevitable personal threats. Very similar to the ones that surfaced when we challenged her a few years ago. At that time I responded with some colorful metaphors. This time I’ll refrain:

    Looking Back Woman-Suzanne Dupree says:
    December 28, 2015 at 11:32 am

    THIS IS FOR SILENT BEAR< IT WAS HARVEY HIMSELF WHO TOLD ME HE HAD CANCER. YOU KNOW NOTHING! AS FOR THE PTE HINCALA CANNUNPA KIN, IT'S POINTING DIRECTLY AT YOU AS AN ENABLER OF AIM/ABOUREZK'S LIES & PROPAGANDA. WE KNOW YOU WILL NEVER EMBRACE THE TRUTH, BECAUSE THE TRUTH DOES NOT SERVE YOU, AIM, ABOUREZK, CODE PINKOS, OBAMA…..
    CREATOR'S JUSTICE IS LIKE THE EQUALIZER & JOHN WICKS COMBINED….SOON YOU WILL LIVE YOUR NAME, SILENT BEAR!
    FFC PUT THE PTE HINCALA CANNUNPA KIN IN My HANDS, NOT TO BE A SPIRITUAL LEADER, BUT HE CHOSE ME TO BE THE CLEANER!
    HOKA HEY< DIRTBAG!

    Oh, I read something the other day by a Lakota woman that "Hoka Hey," is a mans word. Women aren't supposed to use it.

    • The “cleaner, the Equalizer, and John Wick all rolled into one?
      Words like these undermine the integrity of anyone who holds
      a ceremonial pipe or sacred bundle.

  6. I’m going to add a few more words to this – if I have wrongly stated anything
    related to pipes or the role of a “carrier” then any who have taken offense or
    seek to personalize them should comment saying so.
    As I said my beliefs are based upon what I was taught, examples provided,
    and personal experience – in addition I talked to more than a few elders to insure
    that what I would say would be accurate and satisfied they are – I’m not
    chucking any of that overboard without a damn good reason, and I’m not
    going to get caught up in childish spats for speaking what I believe to be
    the truth.
    If I’m wrong then anyone who thinks so is welcome to comment and demonstrate
    how.

  7. FYI. In response to my comment above, I spoke with Harvey Arden earlier this evening, and thankfully he DOES NOT have cancer. Also, he never told LBW that he did. So not only is LBW out of her gourd but she is a big time liar as well. Unlike LBW, Harvey had a significant relationship with both Fools Crow and his interpreter, Mathew King. He interviewed Mathew King for his Wisdomkeepers book and he was so impressed with Harvey that he authorized him to compile a book on him titled, ” Noble Red Man.” In one of these books there is a story where King prayed over Harvey’s pen that ,” no harm will come to the people,” by what he writes. In other words, he “blessed” Harvey’s writings and chose him to share some of this teachings with the world. So when LBW attacks Harvey’s writings and calls it ” demonic,” she’s going against Fools Crows old friend and interpreter.
    .

    • I originally posted the initial “pipe” blog as a result
      of a lot emails I received from friends asking me about
      their meaning and figured it would be easier and save time
      to respond in a blog.
      Apparently that and my positions on Trump created a wedgie
      for some, and while I believe if a problem arises those
      involved should make some effort to address it I believe in
      the things I have said and won’t change a word it.
      Now though a point is being reached where it is becoming
      a she said he said, and while I am familiar with the
      relationship that existed between Arden, King, and Fools
      Crow I opted to sit back and see how things unfolded.
      That led to the statements in the below linked site/comment
      ” really rezinate” that I’m going to address:
      To begin with – Tailgating, really? I can’t recall reblogging
      a single blog from LBW’s site and if I have commented there the
      number of times can be counted on one hand with the opposite
      being a common occurrence, so whose tailgating who?
      Two faced? There seems to be a recurring incidence of attacking
      former “friends” – Bachrach, Trimbach, and myself if we don’t
      agree with everything that is said – and more and more of this
      “demonic, evil satanist, accusation”, that some might say raises
      more than one question, and I suspect I know where all that is
      coming from.
      What I know is that as indigenous people we don’t buy into
      that sort of crap nor pepper our speech with it – and I have
      never, never, heard a traditional elder, pipe carrier, or steward
      of any sacred bundle/item go on in such a way.
      I appreciate your pipe related comments and point out that
      as I’ve said to you on multiple occasions that access is granted
      when direct questions are answered rather than a going off the
      rails in another direction to avoid doing so.
      We both know there is no love lost between you and LBW so it
      should be understood this blog isn’t going to become a vehicle
      for you to launch personal attacks from.
      LBW has said she talked to Arden and he personally told her he
      had cancer, which then led to the karma/creator induced variety
      which I think is total bs – you then say you also have talked
      to Arden and he says he does not have cancer.
      So this comment is approved along with an invitation to lbw to
      respond and verify if she wants to – if not then so be it and
      time to move on as I do my best to keep this a bullshit free
      zone.
      One possible solution would be for Arden to comment and verify
      or dispute – but that’s on him.

      https://lookingbackwoman.wordpress.com/2015/12/28/really-rezinate/

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s